I know the real penalty would not have changed anything, but my more immature side wants Beck to be penalized more seriously for basically appearing out of nowhere for Moore, then doing what every player knows is an awful place to hit a runner. I have to think it wasn’t on purpose, but knowing you are not in the game at the snap and surprising a ball carrier down field with a tackle to the knee is a seriously bad decision.
I would go so far to call this a real "punk" play by Beck - an essentially dirty play. He had a completely unfair advantage in that situation because he came directly in from the sideline. Moore did not see him until the very last instant and then he was expecting Beck to hit him higher up. He was pretty much defenseless against a defender suddenly showing directly up from the sideline! That the refs missed the entire event is mind boggling to me - what the heck were they all looking at??? At least one of those refs was a former P12 ref. In fact I believe that at least two of them were - including the head referee.
The difference (beauty) of the football rulebook [vs. any other major sport] is that those rules can morph/change every year, based on preventing an unwanted event experienced in a previous season, from happening again. You football junkies will know for example the weird and wonderful events that led to the very first 'illegal touching' penalty (see Carlisle Indian school vs. the big Ivy league teams at turn of the 20th century and preventing the new at that time, forward pass, from going to player who was pushed out of bounds). In this case, the rules ought to be changed next year to prevent players from entering game after the snap. This, because of the god-awful hit angle the Weber State player was able to inflict on Quentin. That angle very unlikely to occur if player was lined up as normal at snap, rather than lined up on the sideline and making a beeline entrance to meet cross-over pattern flowing in the direction of Weber State sideline.
The head referee at the Weber State game has been in the Big10 for a year now. Any guesses what conference he came from??
I'm old enough to remember when the Pac expanded to 12 teams. My group went to the Utah game that year, and regaled the tailgaters with stories of officiating. They didn't believe us then, but I'm sure it didn't take long. Our motto at the time was, "The Pac12 - now with 20% more officiating errors".
Is it now, "The Big10, supersized edition with 29% more mistakes."?
Was there and man did it seem like he went for the knee! This is Moore's time after being in the shadows until the Pac-12 winning TD. Sucks and hope he can come back asap. Latu looked lost out there.
1. It's a huge leap to imagine that Beck's hit was designed to injure Moore - it appeared to be just inches away from not creating an injury and was otherwise a good open-field tackle of a large athletic TE. If there's a connection between the illegal presence of Beck and the injury I think it could have to do with Moore not anticipating a defender from that direction, so maybe preparing for a different impact a second later coming from the safety instead of from the sideline.
2. Maybe the Rules Committee should consider changing this rule so that refs can stop the play for safety reasons when this penalty is called, similar to an offsides when a pass rusher has a direct path to the QB. Wouldn't have made a difference in this case because the refs didn't see the infraction, but I think safety is one of the reasons for the rule. (Obviously, the potential for unfair deception is another reason.)
When did they start going less and less pads. Long time ago when I played ... the little bit I did you had pads all over. Now hardly any players wear knee pads (pants look terrible above the knees) if Moore had knee pads on does he get hurt?
I think so. A pad on the knee is only going to lessen the impact directly on the knee cap. Knee pads are mostly so when your knee accidentally contacts a helmet or another players bone during a play, you are less likely to get a bone bruise. An impact on the side of the knee while the foot is planted is a ligament (ACL or MCL) strain or tear. I know from experience, as I have a cadaver ligament as my left ACL, and got it from the same contact to the side of my knee.
Why? Wasn't malicious. More like he was. Shit I'm supposed to be out there. Saw the player with the ball and made the tackle. Would be different if he was standing on the sideline and just ran out.
Do you seriously think that Beck believed that he could run onto the field after the ball was snapped and then almost immediately make a play on a runner with the ball?? That is the part of what he did that is 100% illegal in football. In fact, according to the NFL rules a player who did what Beck did could be hit with a much stronger penalty for "unfair play" by virtue of tackling a runner with the ball. Beck deserved just such a penalty, but apparently it does not exist in college football right now. They definitely need to add it to the rule book. A 5 yard penalty is a very small price to pay for running in late from the sidelines on a direct line to the ball carrier and tackling him from his "blind side" - injuring him in the process!! I would argue strongly that deserves much more than a 5 yard penalty. I think it deserves at least a one-game suspension. I do not believe that the NFL would hesitate to levy such a penalty for a player who did what Beck did. The player would also, of course, get a significant fine in the NFL. It is flat out a very dirty play.
Unfortunately Beck was operating within the rules. It’s a bad look, but I don’t think you can punish if a rule wasn’t broken. Only remedy is to change rule book and that can’t occur until season ends and stakeholders vote.
Watching the first half of the game, it looked like the defense was scrambling a lot pre-snap. I wonder if that’s a function of the new helmet comms changing calls, or if it was just typical defensive adjustments responding to the offense.
I couldn’t tell if it was more or less scrambling than usual
I know the real penalty would not have changed anything, but my more immature side wants Beck to be penalized more seriously for basically appearing out of nowhere for Moore, then doing what every player knows is an awful place to hit a runner. I have to think it wasn’t on purpose, but knowing you are not in the game at the snap and surprising a ball carrier down field with a tackle to the knee is a seriously bad decision.
I would go so far to call this a real "punk" play by Beck - an essentially dirty play. He had a completely unfair advantage in that situation because he came directly in from the sideline. Moore did not see him until the very last instant and then he was expecting Beck to hit him higher up. He was pretty much defenseless against a defender suddenly showing directly up from the sideline! That the refs missed the entire event is mind boggling to me - what the heck were they all looking at??? At least one of those refs was a former P12 ref. In fact I believe that at least two of them were - including the head referee.
The difference (beauty) of the football rulebook [vs. any other major sport] is that those rules can morph/change every year, based on preventing an unwanted event experienced in a previous season, from happening again. You football junkies will know for example the weird and wonderful events that led to the very first 'illegal touching' penalty (see Carlisle Indian school vs. the big Ivy league teams at turn of the 20th century and preventing the new at that time, forward pass, from going to player who was pushed out of bounds). In this case, the rules ought to be changed next year to prevent players from entering game after the snap. This, because of the god-awful hit angle the Weber State player was able to inflict on Quentin. That angle very unlikely to occur if player was lined up as normal at snap, rather than lined up on the sideline and making a beeline entrance to meet cross-over pattern flowing in the direction of Weber State sideline.
Here's an interesting story on the fate of the Pac12 officials: https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/casualties-of-conference-realignment-pac-12-officials-detail-hope-devastation-in-search-of-new-opportunities/#:~:text=The%20Big%20Ten%20has%20been,were%20leaving%20the%20Pac%2D12.
The head referee at the Weber State game has been in the Big10 for a year now. Any guesses what conference he came from??
I'm old enough to remember when the Pac expanded to 12 teams. My group went to the Utah game that year, and regaled the tailgaters with stories of officiating. They didn't believe us then, but I'm sure it didn't take long. Our motto at the time was, "The Pac12 - now with 20% more officiating errors".
Is it now, "The Big10, supersized edition with 29% more mistakes."?
Was there and man did it seem like he went for the knee! This is Moore's time after being in the shadows until the Pac-12 winning TD. Sucks and hope he can come back asap. Latu looked lost out there.
1. It's a huge leap to imagine that Beck's hit was designed to injure Moore - it appeared to be just inches away from not creating an injury and was otherwise a good open-field tackle of a large athletic TE. If there's a connection between the illegal presence of Beck and the injury I think it could have to do with Moore not anticipating a defender from that direction, so maybe preparing for a different impact a second later coming from the safety instead of from the sideline.
2. Maybe the Rules Committee should consider changing this rule so that refs can stop the play for safety reasons when this penalty is called, similar to an offsides when a pass rusher has a direct path to the QB. Wouldn't have made a difference in this case because the refs didn't see the infraction, but I think safety is one of the reasons for the rule. (Obviously, the potential for unfair deception is another reason.)
When did they start going less and less pads. Long time ago when I played ... the little bit I did you had pads all over. Now hardly any players wear knee pads (pants look terrible above the knees) if Moore had knee pads on does he get hurt?
I think so. A pad on the knee is only going to lessen the impact directly on the knee cap. Knee pads are mostly so when your knee accidentally contacts a helmet or another players bone during a play, you are less likely to get a bone bruise. An impact on the side of the knee while the foot is planted is a ligament (ACL or MCL) strain or tear. I know from experience, as I have a cadaver ligament as my left ACL, and got it from the same contact to the side of my knee.
Beck should be penalized in some form in the next game his team plays, maybe sitting out the first half? Something should be done to him.
Why? Wasn't malicious. More like he was. Shit I'm supposed to be out there. Saw the player with the ball and made the tackle. Would be different if he was standing on the sideline and just ran out.
Do you seriously think that Beck believed that he could run onto the field after the ball was snapped and then almost immediately make a play on a runner with the ball?? That is the part of what he did that is 100% illegal in football. In fact, according to the NFL rules a player who did what Beck did could be hit with a much stronger penalty for "unfair play" by virtue of tackling a runner with the ball. Beck deserved just such a penalty, but apparently it does not exist in college football right now. They definitely need to add it to the rule book. A 5 yard penalty is a very small price to pay for running in late from the sidelines on a direct line to the ball carrier and tackling him from his "blind side" - injuring him in the process!! I would argue strongly that deserves much more than a 5 yard penalty. I think it deserves at least a one-game suspension. I do not believe that the NFL would hesitate to levy such a penalty for a player who did what Beck did. The player would also, of course, get a significant fine in the NFL. It is flat out a very dirty play.
Whatever and no I don't think he did it deliberately.
It doesn't have to be a deliberate hit to the knee to be very stupid and penalty/suspension worthy.
Unfortunately Beck was operating within the rules. It’s a bad look, but I don’t think you can punish if a rule wasn’t broken. Only remedy is to change rule book and that can’t occur until season ends and stakeholders vote.
I don't understand your first sentence. The point of the article was that he wasn't within the rules, and the officials missed it.
Watching the first half of the game, it looked like the defense was scrambling a lot pre-snap. I wonder if that’s a function of the new helmet comms changing calls, or if it was just typical defensive adjustments responding to the offense.
I couldn’t tell if it was more or less scrambling than usual
Now likely adjustments.... and maybe just first game